By admin on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 11:14 pm: Edit

PELINKS4U Section Editor Isobel Kleinman wrote the following in the March 12 edition of pelinks4u.

After two decades of teaching under Title IX and being forced to maintain coed classes in the high school, my feeling about conducting mixed classes from grades 9th and above have changed. Mind you, for a decade I had an open mind and thought anything was possible. Now I think of coed classes at the high school level a gross injustice. This is not because there are no advantages. There are - sometimes. But, I couldn't always tap them. That depended to much on outside variables. For example, I could not control the class resister. It was controlled by a school administrator and a computer.

So, in the fall, when class lists were distributed and greatly skewed to one sex or the other, there was nothing I could do but try my best to accommodate both groups. Admittedly, whatever I did, the minority was hampered. It is instances like this, that make me say flat out, I'd rather give up teaching COED classes. It is in that same breath that I wonder, hasn't the intent of Title IX been misinterpreted?

I leave room to admit I am wrong. Perhaps the problems were mine. But here is where I like readers to come in. Please, focus on the problem below. Post on this forum your thoughts and possible solutions. Include your name and school, if you like. By the way, what you see below is what occurred in two of my ten classes each year... no joke.

Your class register creates administrative gender inequity. The imbalance of girls to boys, or vice versa, is so grossly distorted that the minority is seriously compromised.

What if you had a class where 90% of the students were of the same sex?

What if 90% were girls?
What if 90% were the boys?
Is a 70% to 30% split significantly better?

What do you think. Post below:-)

By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 13, 2001 - 07:19 pm: Edit

I am at the middle school level and 2 years ago the male position was eliminated. All my classes are co-ed with a male aide for the locker room and to help me. The aide they hired this year is great. The co-ed classes are not. The genders are at different levels of maturity both physically and mentally. The size of my classes as well as the attitude of some do not allow me to do much teaching. I will not however, "roll out the balls". I will continue to try to teach Physical Education - not athletics or recess. Both years I have had a class of 8th graders with at least 35 students with only 6-10 being females. This not fair to either group. I would like to go back to a male and female teacher, separate classes that once in awhile get together for some co-ed games or activities.

By Val Drake on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 09:29 pm: Edit

"Good questions on the coed issues, it will be interesting to read
whether others feel the same way or not. I agree coed classes create
problems and they vary according to gender when the subject changes ie. Too
few females in sports lead to them being left out , the guys refuse to pass
to them and their skills have little chance of developing in a games
environment unless strict controls are imposed. Likewise in Dance the
reversal is true in that males feel emasculated unless there is an effort
to present some stimuli which boys can appreciate, often sporting elements
in this environment works well for them, letting them take a skill (bowling
action or rowing action) and repeating it 3x then changing the
rhythm/dimension/direction and repeating it again before joining with a
partner to provide action/reaction sequences, allows them to concentrate on
something they feel comfortable with and which they eventually will
recognise as a rhythmical sequences akin to a dance performance. However
this ignores the female need for more aesthetic or emotional stimuli. Thus,
it is important in both areas to recognise that both the minority and
majority sections must be accomodated to have an enjoyable learning
experience. Protection of the minority group at the expense of the majority
group is not a solution either.
One solution suggested earlier in this forum is to separate classes
by skill but in the games environment this is already done by use of
"varsity" teams which allow skilled players to compete at a different
level. However in a classromm the less skilled players can learn a great
deal from interacting with better athletes and pairing people of different
skill levels in a practise situation often reduces the competetive aspect
and allows both to concentrate on improving the action. Likewise in a dance
environment the interaction of males and females is imperative to the
success of nurturing a creative experience and often the less skilled
dancer will produce some of the most exciting ideas. So what is the
answer? "

By Isobel Kleinman on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 09:36 pm: Edit

I have some hints about playing coed games, and I don't mean making up ridiculous rules to over compensate, but I will save them for until my next web responsibility.
I still admit trouble dealing with classes of 46 boys and 4 girls, or 21 unathletic girls and 4 boys, or 38 boys and 12 girls, or 24 girls and 6 boys. These classes were all given me in my National School of Excellence.
Such gross imbalances should be outlawed. COED legislation could not possible have intended us to have to deal with such a bad educational environment.

By Anonymous on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 08:24 am: Edit

We do co-ed in our high school pe classes except
the indoor soccer and floor hockey activities. Things can get a little rough to do these co-ed. All other activities we do co-ed or let the students choose between 2 activities such as basketball or weight training. Offer more individual and dual activities such as tennis, archery, golf, rec. sports, volleyball and softball (team sports). Hope this helps.

By Roxy Laycox on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 11:28 am: Edit

I too am disappointed in the route that coeducational Physical Education has gone..my class becomes the one class that counselors throw the extra students in to give them a "class". This means tremendous unbalancing at the student's expense. I am trying to alter this problem by creating physical education classes where the students choose the activity by period or quarter(we are on a four period day so one quarter eguals one semester). Hopefully by offering a class in Rhythmics, I will attract those students, male or female who choose that class. We are planning on doing all testing, stretching,and conditioning together in a team teaching fashion each day for the co-educational group. Hopefully, the students will know what expectations are for each activity and sign up accordingly..we are starting this curriculum in fall of 01.

By Roxy Laycox on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 11:30 am: Edit

I too am disappointed in the route that coeducational Physical Education has gone..my class becomes the one class that counselors throw the extra students in to give them a "class". This means tremendous unbalancing at the student's expense. I am trying to alter this problem by creating physical education classes where the students choose the activity by period or quarter(we are on a four period day so one quarter eguals one semester). Hopefully by offering a class in Rhythmics, I will attract those students, male or female who choose that class. We are planning on doing all testing, stretching,and conditioning together in a team teaching fashion each day for the co-educational group. Hopefully, the students will know what expectations are for each activity and sign up accordingly..we are starting this curriculum in fall of 01.

By David P. Altopp on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

I have been supervising student teachers for years now at the Secondary level. In general,what passes for Secondary Physical Education is a travesty - at least in my area of the country. I see guys who just want to show off to impress the girls and girls who do not want to do anything to create the horror of sweat. I see teachers that are frustrated with the whole scene and thus struggle with their program offerings. By comparision, I can only recall when I was a Secondary School physical education student and when I taught high school physical education prior to co-ed requirements. I do not know how it was for the girls, but the boys were far more active than what I see now. I believe one of our primary goals is to get students to participate and to participate at a high level of energy. My observations primarily have been that co-ed programs do not accomplish this goal and that is sad.

By Anonymous on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 06:45 pm: Edit

I have taught co-ed physical education for 9 years and single gender(female) for 22 years prior to that. The co-ed program has ruined our physical education program. We now offer activities to keep the boys interested and active. Little regard is given to what the girls are interested in as they do not become a discipline problem when not doing something they totally like. I believe the girls in public school physical education programs have totally lost out under Title 9. I used to teach skills, now I spend all of my time disciplining, refereeing, and supervising. I feel like a well-paid playground supervisor. My displeasure with my job is forcing me into early retirement--one more year and I'm out! I have tried to get my administrators to see my side of the dilemma, but they and my department head are all males and are delighted that their discipline problems have been cut in half. Luckily, our class sizes are mostly kept to equal boy/girl numbers and activities like square dance, bowling, and step aerobics work fine. How I wish for the good old days.....

By Penny Portman on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 12:07 pm: Edit

An excellent resource is Carpenter, L., Acosta, V., Portman, P. & Nelson, S. (2000) Equity in the Gymnasium:Coeducational Physical Education-Finding Solutions and Meeting the Challenges. NAGWS

By Paul Zientarski on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Title IX served a very valuable service by bringing girls athletics to the fore front and supplying them with opportunities that were not available to them before Title IX. However boys and girls are not equal phyically and therefore should not be put together in sport activities. Even in an individual activity like golf, men and women tees are not placed in the same location. Physical education classes should be single gender with a few exceptions like dance and some individual type classes. Perhaps in some cases Co-ed volleyball is OK. But even then, in the sport world, the net height is different for boys and girls. Unfortunately in most cases special rules have to be in place for boys and girls to compete at the same level. That then is not equal nor is it the intent, I'm sure, of the original language of the law.

By JeffWhittaker on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 03:05 pm: Edit

I think coed classes are of value if the person teaching the class has a wide variety of educational tricks to encourage all students. If classes are unbalanced modify lesson plans to involve all students at differing levels. The teacher picks teams not the students. Have the teams with a wide variety of skill. It doesn't matter if the student is a boy or a girl. When playing team sports allow for peer tutoring. I teach team sports and personal fitness and I have never had a problem with coed classes, I think it is fun and enjoy the challenges of the "motor morons" performing with the highly skilled.

By Patrick Milligan on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 11:06 pm: Edit

The fact is that PE is not about "jobs," but about educating our individual
bodies to move more effectively and enjoyably. The real world of physical
movement (a.k.a.-sports, athletics, exercise physiology, medicine,
psychology) realizes that men and women are indeed different physically.
Women basketball leagues use a smaller ball, men's volleyball leagues use a
higher net, etc. How men socialize with each other is different from how
women socialize with each other, and how each gender socializes with the
other is different still.

This is not to say that everything should be separated--quite the contrary.
In many ways and in many areas we should indeed work together. But, to
assume that we are all alike in every way, and, therefore, should compete in
physical contests together is ludicrous. Imagine Pamela Sue Anderson going
up against, well, anyone in football or basketball. Physically, she would
get crushed, even if she knew the techniques to employ.

Bring children together in every other area, including most recreational
activities, but sports is one facet of physical education, and most of them
require different approaches based on gender differences, not on those areas
where we are alike. Besides, little boys and little girls have developmental
needs that can only be met by socializing with others of the same gender.
They, also, have socialization needs that can be met only by integrating
their activities.

Never insult someone by saying that if they are teaching "physical
education," then both genders should be together, like the "real world," and
that if competition is involved, that what they are doing is not physical
education. Perhaps, some are confusing physical education for organized
recess, or simply "play" education.

There are more philosophies than one, so be professional and accept the
variety in our profession.

Patrick Milligan
BYU

By Isobel Kleinman on Friday, April 13, 2001 - 02:56 pm: Edit

I agree with Jeff Whittaker. You can get around many problems in COED PE by creating teams yourself and setting up competition by skill level. But, even doing that, many girls would choose to opt out of COED classes. The few times they have the chance to be on their own, their performance, leadership and initiative pick up. When its time to return to coed, they ask to stay the same, and have class without the boys.

In addition, with the advent of COED classes and COED teachers, PE curriculum changed dramatically. PE is not be just about sports, yet major areas like dance has almost disappeared. Girls ove it. Guys to hate it. And while girls have been good sports, taking up football and weight training and whatever else the male dominated society enjoys, most of the boys have not been as gracious. If their teacher dares to teach dance, creative movement, something that is not competitive, the environment is not a happy place to be.

By Elisa on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 09:30 am: Edit

First of all, our country is supposed to be taught that everyone is to be treated equal, female/male, black/white, whatever the situation. By not having co-educational classes, we start our students off on the wrong foot learning just the opposite. Honestly I do not have the experience yet as a physical education teacher, but I am a junior in college heading in that direction and I have my opinion. I personally do not see people being split up as boy/girl in physical education, it should be high skilled/low skilled. Every student will have a different skill level in different areas. Separating the students is not the solution, but by modifying the games for each level and putting the students in groups with similar skill levels is how anything will be learned. I feel that co-educational classes should continue to be used in the future and I also feel the physical education program will be ruined if they rid of the co-educational idea.

By Garys Group on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 09:40 am: Edit

We feel that this is a sensitive subject and we can see both arguments. However, we feel that in any class, whether divided or not, there are going to be students that are "left out" due to different abilities. Because of this, we feel that it is not so much about separating the classes, but more about the curriculum and how it is taught to the students. A teacher needs to be able to recognize the different ability levels, whether male or female, and adapt the class to benefit all of the students. We understand that social aspects play a role in how students learn and participate in co-ed classes, therefore, we feel that the sport education model would help to eliminate these problems because it gives everyone a role on a team to help build togetherness and team work as opposed to individual concentration while individual skill is being developed. This will also allow students to see other student's strengths, whether skill related or otherwise.

By James Eccles on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 09:42 am: Edit

I believe that co-ed classes should still be in the physical education classroom. From a co-ed classroom males and females would both benefit in sports that are non-contact. For example, sports like volleyball, tennis, archery, softball, soccer, golf, badminton, bowling, ultimate Frisbee, swimming and a dance class. By having both genders interact, I think that both males and females will both have an equal opportunity to develop and participate equally in a physical education classroom. Sports that involve more accidental contact should be separated so both genders will have a better chance to improve his or her skills. From the sports that may have accidental contact some females or males might shy away when there might be an incident when contact is present. So for that reason I feel that it would be beneficial to separate the genders to give each student a better chance to enhance his or her skills.

By Nicole Webb on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 09:43 am: Edit

You wouldn't separate high and low skilled students into different classes so why would you separate boys and girls? We agree with Jeff Whittaker's post that co-ed classes can succeed with the proper rules and protocols. You would not want to separate males and females because they need to learn how to work with and learn from each other for the rest of their lives. The physical education setting is an excellent place for males and females to practice socializing and interacting with each other. We should not eliminate this opportunity from our students.

By Tim on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 09:47 am: Edit

It is crucial that we have a coeducational teaching setting. We believe coeducation is important because interactions occurring in these classes are valuable for the rest of our lives. When a program is well established stereotypes will not be reinforced as strongly. This gives the students an opportunity to grow socially and physically at the same time. Coeducation also gives the students an opportunity to interact appropriately with members of the opposite sex.
Although we understand that the sexes develop at different rates, classes containing males and females separately may be more beneficial to the physical domain of the student. Coeducational classes cover all aspects of a fully developed person in today's world when dealing with the opposite gender.

By Steven Fisher on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 01:02 pm: Edit

We have taught physical education coed for about 25 years. We are a Class C school in Northern NY. Up until four years ago our classes were large and the mix of males and females was quite uneven, the situation is better now though not ideal. In the beginning girls were hesitant in participating with the boys. We still have individuals who are alergic to sweat. We have a fairly traditional curriculum that we modify as to the activities we do yearly. We have added some strategies that have helped our students reach our state standards, be succesful,and to develop enthusiasm for physical activity. We have incorporated some of the sport education ideas into our activities. One of the most important factors is having the teacher do all the grouping- whether it be for skill drill activities or for the small team games we play. Factors to consider in grouping are: skill level;past successful experiences in class;and type of personality. This has to be preplanned before one begins a unit of instruction. It takes more time, but the results are worth it. For example,taking a high skilled student who isn't so intense and pairing them with a lower skilled student has been one successful strategy. All of our team games are played by small numbers on each team on modified fields,courts, with modified goals. When we do soccer or lacrosse, for example, we play across the width of the field using the center line as one sideline. The other sideline is 3 cones spread out. No more than 5 on a team and the goals will be 2 cones x feet apart depending upon the sport. The first 2 periods we play we may start out that only girls can score, the whole time or most of the time. The boys get the general idea. After we go to anyone can score, I remind the boys that we do not want to go back to where only girls can score. When we do drills leading up to the games we usually only work in pairs. We encourage students to give positive feedback to each other to help the other improve. We remind our students of personal management skills such as respect,communication, collaboration,sportsmanship,cooperation,etc. In a large class we can have 4 games going at once, instead of 1 large game with one ball and a lot f students standing around.

By Lexa Jones on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 09:26 pm: Edit

I dont have a problem with the Co-ed issue in PE. My problem is with the class sizes. When you are teaching 60+ students, its hard to address the issues you all are encountering.

Currently the make up of some of my classes is 35 average students 25 students with discipline problems or are special education (not adapted PE), and 5 retained students. Thats a tough class to manage.

It would be nice if PE was respected as a class where student learning is taking place, rather than 'supervised recess', or something to that effect. If the number of students per class was reduced, the problems with boy/girl classes would also be reduced.

By Bill Sweigert on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:09 am: Edit

I believe that co-ed classes gives students an opportunity to interact appropriately with members of the opposite sex. If we continue to convey to our youth that males and females should be split because one sex can or can't do something the other sex can is telling them that everyone is not equal. I believe by using the Sport Education Model in your classroom will help how the curriculum is taught. It will give every student a role on a team to help build teamwork as to individual concentration while individual skill is being developed. I do agree with Nicole Webb in that the physical education setting is
an excellent place for males and females to practice socializing and interacting
with each other. Why would we want to eliminate this opportunity from our students.